[Frog]

On Debates, I present to you two Force Prodigies, both of them legendary and feared throughout the galaxy in their time.

DARTH VADER VS REVAN


Darth Vader would be one of the galaxy's greatest legends and myths. He was said to have mastered control of the Force, and the lightsaber. It was said in one tale, that he could crush an AT-AT with one hand outstretched, clearly demonstrating the power of the Dark Side.
Vader would switch from Anakin Skywalker's signature style, Djem So, to the precise and elegant Makashi, ideally for preventing him from being disarmed and fighting unpredictably. He would still retain some of Djem So's aggressive nature, and it would carry on to be the backbone of his attacks. He has mastered a variety of Force powers, each for different situations. However, he would not be without weakness; His suit often times gave his opponents some advantages due to it's electric sensitivities. Not many have come to exploit this however, and the legends and myths often times exaggerate to the point where nothing is clear.


Revan was a renowned Force master. He would come to study all forms of the Force, and would use the Power to his will. Ranging from the popular Force Lightning, to the subtle Mind Trick. Not only did he master nearly all corners of the Force, he was also a competent lightsaber duelist, and took on the Galaxy's most fierce warriors in combat, some with him fighting nearly thirty five warriors at once, or one singular great threat.
He also had the canny ability to inspire loyalty and respect to those around him, and often found himself on precarious adventures with them. He once taught his own apprentice to mastery, stood within the presence of Jedi Council members without them being suspicious of his true motives, and fought face-to-face with a Rancor.

The fight will take place on Endor, well away from the prying eyes of the Ewoks.

[quickflint]

I am still miffed that Revan is canonically male. In my mind Revan was always a woman.

[Zaluk]

While this is close, I don't think it's as close as Mace vs Dooku.

Lightsaber skill:
Due to his cybernetic suit, which was required for his injuries suffered on Mustafar, Darth Vader was forced to completely retool his lightsaber technique. Instead of the textbook style of Djem-So he used as Anakin Skywalker, Vader created something much more sophisticated. He created a hybrid form of all lightsaber forms to suit his needs, with Djem-So as the backbone. A lot of Vader's style was geared towards protecting his mask. Vader was a smart fighter and a great analytical one, as shown when he cautiously approaches Ben Kenobi and Luke Skywalker in their duels, as well as many others.
Vader's skill was so great, his skill was said to be unparalleled and was a master at lightsaber combat.

He is a master of the lightsaber, wielding the lightning blade with blinding speed.

- Source: Lightsaber Duelling Pack: Darth Vader

Darth Vader is the embodiment of all evil. Under the guidance of Emperor Palpatine-aka Darth Sidious- Lord Vader controls the Galactic Empire with an iron fist. He's an unparalleled lightsaber combatant and an even more capable Force wielder.

- Source: Star Wars: The Force Unleashed II: Prima Official Game Guide

Vader has beaten numerous Jedi at once while not yet used to his armour.




There are so many Vader skill feats, if I were to go through all of them, this thread would never end.

Revan was a great duelist and a great strategist. Revan has mastered many forms of combat and Chris Avellone (head writer of KOTOR 2) thought that Revan could beat the Exile and Kreia at the same time.

"If the Exile could defeat Kreia, Revan would have an easier time of it. United with the Exile, Kreia and the Exile vs. Revan? My money’s still on Revan, since in my mind, Revan was a master strategist as well as an extremely powerful Force wielder."

-Chris Avellone (Knights of the Old Republic 2 Head Writer)

Though this is just his opinion, so it should be taken with a grain of salt, especially since the Exile herself has often been compared to Revan, or even stated as better in KOTOR 2.

Even so, Revan still beat Darth Malak, beat armies of Dark Jedi on the Star Forge (the Dark Jedi and Malak would have been amped) and has been regarded as a great duelist.

"At his prime, he was a powerful warrior, a general, and a skilled tactician. He was a legend to some."

- Darth Malgus (Star Wars: The Old Republic)

As duelists Revan and Vader have similar accolades, however I feel Vader has the edge in feats. Also, Revan's tactical mind was also better suited for the battle field and while it would also be useful in 1v1 duels, Vader's strategic mind is better for a dueling scenario.

Lightsaber Skill: Darth Vader

Force Abilities:
Darth Vader was a powerhouse when it came to the force and was regarded as an extremely powerful individual. In fact, Vader was stated to have 80% of Palpatine's power, the most powerful dark sider of all time.

“Anakin, as Skywalker, as a human being, was going to be extremely powerful,” he says. “But he ended up losing his legs and an arm and became partly a robot. So a lot of his ability to use the Force, a lot of his powers, are curbed at this point, because, as a living form, there’s not that much of him left. So his ability to be twice as good as the Emperor disappeared, and now he’s maybe 20 percent less than him. So that isn’t what the Emperor had in mind. He wanted this really super guy, but that got derailed by Obi-Wan. So he finds that, with Luke, he can get a more primo version if he can turn Luke to the Dark Side. You’ll see, as this goes on, Luke is faced with the same issues and practically the same scenes that Anakin is faced with. Anakin says yes and Luke says no.”

- Source: Star Wars: The Last Battle, Vanity Fair Magazine, 2005

As his control over the dark side deepened, Vader grew increasingly contemptuous of his previous life as a mere student. The Dark Lord possessed immeasurable power, and unquestionable authority.

- Source: Anakin Skywalker: The Story Of Darth Vader

Vader has monstrous Telekinetic feats, some that easily put him as one of the best Telekinetics in star wars lore, surpassed only by few.




Revan was immensely powerful with the force, Kreia even says looking at Revan was like looking into the heart of the force, though this was likely hyperbole. Revan had a great knowledge and mastery over the force. In my opinion, Revan's most impressive feats were when he telekinetically pulled many small meteors and when he redirected lightning to the Dark Council Member Nyriss, turning her to ash.

"Revan emerged from the cell. He Had pulled the hood of his Jedi robe up to cover his head, and he word the red-and-gray mask, hiding his face. A dozen bolts of lightning sprang from Nyriss's hand, arcing across the room to incinerate her enemies.

Instead of leaping back into the cell to avoid the deadly attack, Revan stepped forward to intercept it. Both hands were held in front of him, his arms fully extended at shoulder height, his thumbs touching and his fingers splayed wide.

He drew the bolts of lightning into his waiting grasp, channeling them away from their intended targets and absorbing their power. "I am Revan reborn," he said to Nyriss. "And before me you are nothing."

Nyriss's eyes went wide as Revan unleashed the power of her own attack against her. She tried to throw up another Force shield, but the bolts ripped it apart and continued on unabated. The lightning engulfed her, the intense heat consuming her instantly, leaving only a pile of charred ash."

- Source: Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan

Though both very powerful with the force, I feel Vader has a noticeable edge when it comes to raw power. Revan's versatility and mastery does help balance this, but Vader is similarly masterful.

Force abilities = Darth Vader

Physical Abilities

Both can reach superhuman levels with force augmentation, however Revan is simply outclassed here. His only edge is agility and speed, however Vader can still compete with this. Vader is also superhumanly fast and agile. Not only this, but Vader's strength and durability far exceeds Revan's own. Vader has ripped durasteel doors, crushed human skulls, slammed his fist through steel and survived being buried alive for days.

Physical Abilities = Darth Vader

Conclusion:

The fight would start out primarily as a lightsaber duel, with them occasionally throwing some force attacks. Revan would slowly start to find that he is on the losing end and he would leap back and throw a barrage of telekinetic attacks at Vader. Force pushes, throwing trees at Vader etc....Vader would respond with greater power, tanking the pushes and throwing the Trees back at Revan. Realising he's outclassed again, he'd try to look for something else to give him an advantage. He'd notice Vader's mask. He'd send torrents of lightning towards Vader's mask, however the Dark Lord would raise his blade to defend himself. The duel would last for a long time and Revan would throw everything he has at Vader, but Vader would keep coming back with greater power. Vader's superior strategic mind would negate Revan's own and eventually Revan would fall.

tl;dr

Winner: Darth Vader

[MasterM]

I feel like a large deciding factor would be whether the fight takes place before or after Revan's mind wipe. Obviously Revan would win, have you seen his physical abilities? He manages to go on a massive galactic adventure in Kotor all at a brisk jog.

[Zaluk]

I feel like a large deciding factor would be whether the fight takes place before or after Revan's mind wipe. Obviously Revan would win, have you seen his physical abilities? He manages to go on a massive galactic adventure in Kotor all at a brisk jog.

In my opinion Revan in his prime would be during the events of SWTOR, before he became crazy, so I feel it'd be fair to assess his character up to that point.

[Hiicrop]

I really dislike Revan. In the first KOTOR he was fine, but they took his character and made him into something that doesn't fit into the star wars universe. Meetra Surik is a much better character. My bounty hunter killed him in SWTOR with blasters. I am not going to give my opinion on who would win this fight because I object to it even being thought.

Here is a recommended fight: Corran Horn versus Kyle Katarn

[Mandalorian]

Well, Revan did take on hundreds of Dark Jedi, Sith Troops, and Rakatan droids upon the star forge, where the dark jedi are a ton more stronger because of how the star forge is filled with dark side energy, not to mention Darth Malak upon the Star Forge deck where he stole energy from fallen jedi who were about to become one with the force. The Rakatan droids are build from rakatan technology, which if I may remind you, completely destroyed Tatooine and turned it into a desert planet.

Revan was a powerful force user, was a great leader and general, and very skilled.

Vader is very reliant of his suit. I once saw a video which describes the entirety of his suit and it's functions. His suit is a huge disadvantage to him for many reasons (search the vid, don't want to do it rn ), however Vader is also a powerful force user, a great general, however not a good leader. Many people question his command and methods, and so much so that in the original trilogy he barely has any say in the matters that occur. Anakin was skilled, but with the suit's disadvantages his skills have diminished, making Vader more force reliant, which happens to be a good thing considering how powerful he is with it, take the Clone Wars for example, when he used the force to control the Son and the Daughter, two all powerful force entities.

...hmm.. So, after thinking about it..

it would be a tough battle, but in the end, Revan would come victorious. He is more powerful in terms of raw power and skills, is about as good as being a general as Vader, but leadership leans towards Revan, and force abilities...Vader would prevail. Vader as a kid already possessed great force power, enough to stun both obi-wan and qui-gon, despite him not being even remotely trained in the force. Revan was said to be described as "the heart in which all of the force flows through" by Kreia, a sith lord/philosopher, who happens to know a ton about the force (enough so to want to destroy it ).

But yeah, Revan would win, but it'd be a tough battle.

[Frog]

+ 1 to Vader ;D

[Kirito]

I vote Vader also. Don't get me wrong.... I am a HUGE Revan fan. Infact i used Darth Revan as my gamer tag in JKA/JKO all the way until I started playing here with you guys.

Vader to me would beat Revan in a straight up one vs one though.

[Hiicrop]

I am voting Vader when it comes down to mastery of the dark side. Before Luke Skywalker redeemed him, Darth Vader was a force of unbridled fury, hatred, and brutal expertise of the shien lightsaber form that could only be restrained by his master. Even his hatred toward Darth Sidious gave him more power. Darth Vader used the dark side. Revan let it consume him and that was his undoing. I admit it would be hard fought but Vader would come out as the victor.

[Frog]

Through furious Force exchanges, brutal saber clashes, and near exhausting their Physical abilities, both of the fighters would give it their all. They would recognize true swordsmanship when they see each other, and would spark a kind of gritty respect for each other. however in the end, there can only be one winner, only one to come out victorious and move up the league one spot to face off against other winners in a battle for the ULTIMATE TITAN reward.

Vader and Revan are almost equally matched in near all areas, except for one thing: Vader is stronger, and slightly more disciplined. That would tip the balance by only a LITTLE bit, however, that would be desperately needed to move on with the fight.

So it would come to pass, that Darth Vader would win by catching Revan off guard. The fight would persist for a near hour due to the ninety-nine percent stalemate. Vader would use the Force abruptly to catch Revan off guard and pull him to Vader to spear him with his saber.




]

The winner is Darth Vader.

[Kirito]

Yay!