[Frog]

Today on Debates, I bring to your attention two of the galaxy's most deadly duelist ever to be known.

COUNT DOOKU vs MACE WINDU


Count Dooku was a Jedi straight from birth, and was a renowned duelist. He would come to study the Makashi style, one of elegance and precision, the second lightsaber form and one of the most Favorited saber vs saber combat techniques. Though old in age, he is capable of fighting multiple Jedi at once for minutes on end. He is a skilled tactician, and is well known for his dark knowledge of the Force.


Mace Windu, creator of the Lightsaber style known as Vaapad, was second only to Yoda in his dueling skills. He would be known as one of the greatest warriors on the Council to date. He is also the youngest Jedi ever to earn a rank on the Council, and possibly the most powerful. Vaapad would uphold the principles of Juyo, the seventh Lightsaber form. The difference being, that Vaapad manipulates the negative feelings of the opponent to harness Mace with power and energy. Windu is capable of fighting in nearly all circumstances, including using his fists to tear durasteel off of a super battle droid.

The fighters will meet at the battlegrounds of Geonosis, and will proceed to carry the fight off of a lone corner, away from the raging battle.

[Hiicrop]

Mace in his prime + shatterpoint + vaapad = dead dooku

[Frog]

XD noted.

[Zaluk]

This is a really tough one. Factually, they're pretty much on par.

Among the other Jedi, perhaps only Mace Windu would have been his (Count Dooku)

equal on neutral ground.

- Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

Skill:

Both are top tier duelists, possibly in the top 5 in Star Wars lore. Even though Sidious threw the fight, Mace still was capable of contending with Sidious by virtue of sheer skill. Similarly, Dooku was capable of contending with Yoda by virtue of sheer skill, though Yoda was holding back. While heavy with circumstance, these feats shouldn't be scoffed at. Mace has been described as second only to Yoda within the Jedi, though this was while Dooku was a Sith Lord.

Nick Gillard : We didn't see Mace fighting yet, but we know that he is second only to Yoda...

- Source : Star Wars Episode II: Action Featurette

Mace has also stomped Sora Bulq, Quinlan Vos and has defeated Asajj Ventress almost casually.
Dooku on the otherhand has stomped Sora Bulq, Quinlan Vos, Asajj Ventress, Savage Opress and Obi-Wan Kenobi. Dooku has also been said to have beaten Mace Windu in sparring sessions as a Jedi, however both Mace and Dooku would have been out of their prime at this point.
When it comes to pure skill with the blade they really are equals, there's no way around it.

Skill = equal

Force Abilities:
Dooku was regarded as one of the most powerful Jedi in history, way before his prime.

He was one of the most respected and powerful Jedi in the Order's twenty-five-thousand-year history, yet at the age of seventy Dooku's principles would no longer allow him to serve a Republic in which political power was for sale to the highest bidder.

- Source: Revenge of the Sith

He's also performed noticeable feats such as ragdolling Obi-Wan, Anakin and Grievous. He's also collapsed ceilings and Durasteel doors. Most impressively though, Dooku has collapsed a large bridge casually and reflected redirected lightning from Yoda, the best Jedi at the time.



Mace Windu was also a very powerful force wielder, regarded as the second most powerful Jedi of his time, the first being Yoda.

He seems to be second most powerful jedi on the that council, next to Yoda.

- Source : Insider #55

Mace has done impressive things such as collapsing a bride with a gesture and stomped Grievous with a force crush, who was capable of dodging telekinetic blasts. Most impressively, Windu has force pushed an AT-TE off a cliff and force pushed hundreds of Super battle droids at once.


They're very close, though I'd say Windu would have slightly more raw power, however this is matched by Dooku's versatility.

Force Power = equal

Physical abilities:

This should be pretty obvious. While Dooku is physically more capable than most men half his age, Windu is simply in the better shape. Windu's endurance and strength is great, capable of fighting through terrible injuries and punching through super battle droids.


Physical Abilities = Mace Windu

Conclusion:
Very few are so factually on par like these two, it really could go either way. They are even as swordsman and as force wielders, though Windu has better physical abilities.
The fight would be a long slugging match and neither would be able to get the edge through their blade skill or abilities in the force. Eventually though, one would start to tire out. This would likely be Dooku. When this happens, Dooku's movements would eventually start to slow and he'll be forced to flee, or he'd be cut down.

Winner: Mace Windu

I was extremely bored when making this.

[John]

Oh, I had totally forgotten this scene. Pure epic.

Mace wins just for this.

[Frog]

Like John, Zaluk, and Hiicrop, I too agree that Mace Windu would win. No doubt the fight would persist for a long time but meh. +1 vote.

[Key]

wow, zaluk, I'm impressed with your response to this thread lol... But yeah, I'm also going to say Mace Windu. When he was younger he was one ferocious dude.

[Frog]

Dooku would hold Mace at bay for a long time, and their skill with the lightsaber would be at a near stalemate. However, being two generations older than him, Dooku would tire from Mace's undying strength and determination,
Mace's strength would furthermore give him the upper hand, as his youth and physical prowess add up to make for devastating results.
Never before has a fight been so close, two fighters being identical to their accomplishments.



Zaluk supplied the best logical argument by saying that Dooku would come close, but not far enough to match his strength and age. The winner is Mace Windu.

[Kirito]

Mace beat the Emperor in a one v one, if not for Anakin, the Emperor wouldve been dead.

Plus Anakin beat Dooku, I think it's fair to say that Mace is definitely going to win vs dooku one v one.

[Zaluk]

Mace beat the Emperor in a one v one, if not for Anakin, the Emperor wouldve been dead.

Plus Anakin beat Dooku, I think it's fair to say that Mace is definitely going to win vs dooku one v one.

Those fights were riddled with circumstance.

With Mace vs Sidious, in order to avoid writing an essay, I'll just say that Mace was experiencing extremely negative feelings at the time, due to the fact that a bunch of Jedi were just slaughtered before his eyes, before he could even react. These are the kind of feelings Vaapad are designed to draw on, the kind of feelings he won't be having on a normal day. Not only this, but the novel says that Mace was also amped by his determination. If he could win, he'd take down the Sith and bring the galaxy into peace.

Regarding Anakin vs Dooku, Anakin was amped by dark rage, he wasn't sure if his best friend was alive or not, so he was drawing on his rage to kill Dooku. You also have to keep in mind that before this, Dooku was fending off the combined effort of the greatest Soresu and Djem-So masters of all time. Under normal circumstances, we've seen Dooku perform much better.

[Kirito]

That's kind of my point. See I'm a firm believer that every Jedi goes through this. That's how Obi-Wan defeated Darth Maul only after Qui Gon was stabbed. Luke cuts off Vaders hand and beats him down in ROTJ due to Vader threatening Leia. As you mentioned before with Anakin and Dooku, not knowing if Obi-Wan was ok. Rey after FInn is cut by Kylo. I can go on. But in each one of these circumstances each one is pushed to their greatest potential in that moment and defeated their enemy.

If a Sith Lord is wise, they WILL use an enemys(especially a Jedi) weaknesses against them. Push them to their limits at any given moment. If a Jedi is able to overcome this, they clearly outmatch the Sith Lord they are fighting regardless of reaching out to the Dark Side. In the JKA Single player, our boi Katarn, makes reference to using Dark Side powers as a Jedi. I believe a Jedi is not comprised of what type of Force powers they use, but in which way they use them.

But lets talk about Mace. Mace Windu's saber form (type VII)pushes him close to the Dark Side to begin with. Mace Windu is supposed to be stronger then Yoda. Anakin makes reference to this in Attack of the clones when speaking with Padme about Obi-Wan. I'm not denying any of Yoda's power simply in comparison to Mace, he's the wise one, Mace is the more powerful. Maces circumstances with losing multiple Jedi Masters right before his eyes only boosts him as a duelist. His determination to win would not be broken in that moment. If not for Anakin, Palps reign wouldve ended there.

[Zaluk]

Mace is not stronger than Yoda, not even close. Sources have said that Mace is second to Yoda.

Inside the spacious interior of the Galactic Senate chamber, Yoda challenged the Emperor. The two engaged in a spectacular duel—a contest between the most powerful practitioners of the Force’s light and dark sides.

- Source: The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia

This truth: that he, the avatar of light, Supreme Master of the Jedi Order, the fiercest, most implacable, most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known...

-Source: Revenge of the Sith

Master Windu was also known within the Order for his unusual fighting style, one that he developed after studying the dueling styles of various lightsaber masters. His attacks consisted of relentless, unpredictable blows, like shots from an autoblaster. Master Windu himself remained perfectly balanced and centered. In the history of the Jedi Order, only two opponents ever overcame him in battle. One was Master Yoda, who some said was the Order's true master of lightsaber combat. The other was former Master Dooku, whose own fighting style was archaic, yet stunningly effective.

- Source: Power of the Jedi Sourcebook

Though it was true that he had slowed slightly in the years that Mace Windu had known him, Yoda's skill with a lightsaber was still second to none on the council.

- Source: Darth Maul Shadow Hunter

I'm more than willing to take these sources over Anakin who thought he rivaled Yoda as a swordsman by Attack of the Clones. The power Mace achieved in that moment against Sidious was a one time thing, not only that but they were depicted as equals once Mace achieved his amp. At base power, Mace doesn't compare to Yoda or Sidious. I can't explain it as well as this guy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thsFbDtLrVg

[Frog]

Hey, hey, guys, uh, did you notice that Dooku is lying on the ground, in half?
XD

[Kirito]

Zaluk - Just so you know, I <3 you so much for referencing the EU and Novels about the movies,i read them too, in this debate. I stand corrected if we're going that route in debate vs. what is stated or referenced in the movies alone.

I still stand by what I said about every Jedi needing to face that kind of hard ship to win in battles like stated above. As for a one time thing for Mace, I disagree.

But that's just my opinion. ^^

Samuel L Jackson would agree

[Zaluk]

Fair enough :>