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 #138130  by Mandalorian
 
This is a different emperor tho, I think, this is Lord Snoke or something like that.
 #138132  by Jack Skywalker
 
Zaluk wrote: Also, why was Leia so weak compared to Luke? She was supposed to have the same amount of potential that Luke had.
AND the new movie didn't make any refference to Leia's powers, even as she was supposed to be trained by Luke between the 2 movies (they had a lot of time).
 #138133  by Zaluk
 
Mandalorian wrote:This is a different emperor tho, I think, this is Lord Snoke or something like that.
I know, I'm talking about the stuff in the EU :p or 'Legends'.
Jack Skywalker wrote:AND the new movie didn't make any refference to Leia's powers, even as she was supposed to be trained by Luke between the 2 movies (they had a lot of time).
They do show that she senses a few things. Honestly it's quite possible that she didn't want to be trained.
 #138136  by John
 
I said "books" for a reason, the stuff you are referring to where the emperor comes back are from the comics, which I despise. Star wars comics are nothing more than crap written by lazy fan children who want to make a name for themselves by writing twists into the star wars universe thinking that other authors will continue their stories. Luckily this didn't happen and if you stick to the books you never even hear about the emperor being reborn, unless you read the comics or wookiepedia.

I would have loved them to make a movie about Thrawn and that time period. So much good stuff happened there. All the rogue squadron stories, the rebuilding of the jedi, the rebirth of the republic.

Anyway, I found the new star wars movie extremely disappointing due to the lack of originality and not making sense. Its almost the exact story line from The New Hope movie. The main character starts out on a desert planet and finds a droid on a secret mission with secret plans. The bad guys come and they have to escape the desert planet in the Millennium Falcon. The wise old guy takes them to a cantina to find a ship where there's bounty hunters. The new superweapon is just a plantet sized deathstar that shoots a laser to destroy planets. Upon escaping the bad guys again the goods guys go to the good-guy base on some forest planet and formulate a plan to destroy the deathstar before it is ready to fire and destroy their base. They get in their ships and fly towards the superweapon and attack it. They have to rescue the female protagonist from said superweapon by infiltration. They have to deactivate something on said superweapon for completion of plot line. The bad guy senses the presence of the old guy who he used to have an attachment to, goes to find him, and ends up killing him. To destroy the superweapon the goodguy pilot flies down a trench and exploits a small hole to attack and damage which creates a chain reaction to destroy the superweapon. Luckily they destroy the superweapon last-second before it fires its deadly beem and save the good-guy base. Upon the destruction of superweapon all heros are seen flying away and all key bad guys have escaped. Upon returning to the base people rush out to celebrate with the pilot who made the critical hits on the superweapon. Oh, and stormtroopers still suck at aiming

Now, which movie did I just describe? If you guessed episode 4 or episode 7 you would be correct. :P


Moving on, I also had alot of other problems with the movie, just with stuff making no sense. So, like episode 4 this movie starts out with so much backstory but little explanation on events leading up to the movie. There are several factions mentioned and little explaining done, as to their roles. We had The resistance, the first order, and the republic, none of which were explained very well.

Then there was the force. Darth Ren used the force at the beginning of the movie to freeze that one guy and the laser blast, after releasing his grasp the laser continues its current trajectory and velocity. I mean laser bolts aren't self-propelling or infinite. Later in the movie, rey was able to use the force and pick up on things with no training. All other movies have suggested that using the force takes great concentration and practice. Luke is barely able to use telekinesis with basic training from Obi-Wan, and Rey is able to overpower Ren's telekinetic grip on the lightsaber with no training after Fin falls (what's with all the one syllable names in this movie?). She was also very emotional, which would have made using the force, without falling to the dark side, nearly impossible at her level.

Talking briefly on Kylo Ren. His character really made no sense. There was no reason for him to go all evil and have some tragic fall to the dark side, at least none was mentions other then Snoke seducing him to the dark side. From what we see there is no tragic life event, no hate relationship, or no cravings of power to lead him down that path. Only conclusion I get is it's teen emo problems as all the young actors look and act like teenagers. So, star wars, the teens strike back, puberty awakens?

Talking briefly on Fin. He obviously has no connection with the force, so idk why they wasted time to give him a lightsaber other than for not making the lightsaber-time-quota initially, other than for cutting down trees. He was as out of place as the stormtrooper he fought with the baton thing, because blasters are too mainstream now I guess and while all the other stormies are going around shooting people, we wanted to beat them with his stick. I guess stun setting on the blasters are a thing of the past to.
Then there was the part where Han said "Those are explosives" and Fin like, "Now you tell me". Seriously, that guy is supposed to be part of the most elite fighting force in the galaxy, trained from young age to fight, and doesn't know what explosive charges look like?! He also had all this knowledge of the bad-guy base that was supposed to be valuable even though the resistance had a technical readout of the base. Like when he said the weakness was that one thingy *points* *pop-up hologram comes out showing the weakness*, so unless he had the blueprints memorized, all the information Fin gave, the good guys already had...

Now for everything else that didn't make sense. The destruction of those planets was pretty much pointless as the audience was give no information on them. So, when they blew up we were like "Oh no! Not.....those planets, wait what?"

Abrams seems to like his indestructible space ships. In the second star trek movie he pulled the same crap and in star wars he kept throwing the Millennium Falcon around like a brick. IDK how space ships work where he's from but they don't work like that....anywhere. You can't just smash something into the ground and still fly away in it later. There was also all the technical mumbo-jumbo they added in for the sole purpose of confusing people and to get the point across that Rey knew how space ships worked from scrapping stuff back in Jakku. But anyways, at the end of the movie I was wondering why they didn't just crash the millennium falcon into the important thing to destroy it. Also, at the beginning when Fin is on the quad-gun he well established that the gun had limits and did not point backwards, yet for some reason he was in the bottom gun turret shooting backwards when the Falcon was staying low, skimming the ground. How is this supposed to be effective?

On the subject of space ships, I'm not sure why on a small tie-fighter you need both a pilot and gunner. Has flying and shooting become too difficult for imperial pilots, Also, if you are cramming to people int he cockpit of a tie-fighter where the heck are the engines, guns, fuel/power cells for this thing.

I'm also not sure how stars work from where Abrams is from, but again, they don't work like that...anywhere. Seems also ineffective if your superweapons is that big couldn't you just have multiple superlasers and reactors to power them and get the same multiple planet destruction effect without risking turning the star you are orbiting into a supernova, clasping into a black hole, or risking all the star energy destabilizing within your planet. Guess it puts the star back in star wars at least. How did they build it unnoticed over what would have been many years.

The emotional droids thing was really annoying, ran out of dogs so droids take their place. C-3p0's red arm just to make the you-don't-recognize-me joke, seriously. Then the whole thing with artoo shutting down because Luke left. He survives all previous movies, the death of all jedi, anakin turning into darth vader, padme dying, the empire, but goddammit Luke left, so artoo's shutting down. Oh yeah, Luke's 10 seconds of screen time...lol

Leia hugs Rey even though they had never even seen or met each other, awkward hug time. Rey is proficient with a blaster without ever using one before an is hitting stormtroopers accurately every time. Rey speaks droid?! Rey can pilot a ship without ever doing it, just from scrapping them?! It's like what Lucas did with Anakin in episode 1 except Anakin was actually smart, smart enough to build a podracer and drive it, which is still more experience then Reys had. And people thought Lucas' ideas sucked, what does it mean when they get re-used. To quote a famous character, "who's more foolish, the fool or the fool who follows him?"
 #138170  by Frog
 
Something I've noticed is that many have been angry at how similar A New Hope is to the Force Awakens. But, wait a minute, everyone said that the prequels were not like the originals and that was what made them bad! make up yo mind!

That being said, I can EASILY give the Force Awakens a 9/10. The only problem I had with the movie was that this was the first time I went to a Imax theater. And I was in the front row seat, with 3D glasses on, and my heart thumped with each blaster bolt and the screen was too big and I was a bit overwhelmed and got sick.

That does NOT mean the movie did not kick total amounts of posteriors!
 #138172  by Frog
 
And good grief, John, that's the biggest post I have ever seen you made :P

Well, addressing the two man Tie fighter issue you have with the movie, I'd say either it's a specialized design, for the First Order only, or it's a new principle design, and it can't go very far outside of the Cruiser's range or it will be depleted of it's use. I don't think that this is a bad idea, considering not too many Tie Fighters ever had a reason to stray very far from their mother ship, and though this is probably all in all impractical, the Empire of none else would probably do that.

As for the Millennium Falcon issue you have, it being nigh indestructible, that's actually true. I literally have the manual on my lap and am reading it. Han Solo and Lando Calrissian had the thing decked out with armor, gadgetry, speed upgrades ( Original YT-1300s usually do not go that fast, as they are cargo freighters and built to TRANSPORT, not to FIGHT per say. ), shield upgrades, all in all upgraded. It can also make the Kessel run in less than twelve parsecs!
That being said, if Rey and Finn had ever taken the other ship and it did not blow up, they would be screwed :>

Rey hugs Leia because of Han Solo's death.

Artoo had too much data pertaining to Luke Skywalker, and he trusted in the Force and in Artoo to power up when the time was right. Luke could not have a reason to take Rey on private training if he already publicly failed in front of the Republic and the Resistance. It'd be a good reason if Rey privately sought him out first.

Addressing Finn's inability to recognize explosives, yeaahhh I kind of agree with ya John. EXCEPT, it could be that it was a unconventional set of explosives, or else it was something Finn never encountered before. Keep in mind, Finn essentially quit on his first mission as First Order. ;)

As for the impracticality of the Starkiller base and it's lack of reasons for realistically be operated, I can only guess that they probably have a self-regenerating form of energy, I do not think the First Order would be dumb enough to call it a one-hit-wonder and not use it again. It is of course, being powered by the sun. As for overheating or going supernova on their own station, I again, must stress that they probably have something to back it up in case of a malfunction.

'' Oh no, not those planets.. wait what? '' Yeah I agree with you, John. Maybe some screen time on those planets would have been nice ;)

THE STORMTROOPERS ARE AWESOME YOU HUSH!!!!!

As for the books, ey, ey, ey, EY, you respect dem books I loved them! ;_;
 #138175  by MasterM
 
I agree with a lot of what John said, especially about blowing up the planets we had no reason to care about and the damage the millennium falcon takes. Like, Rey scrapes the whole side + cockpit through the sand and they just keep flying like nothing's wrong lol.

I also thought it was confusing that Han is really old and his son doesn't look very old at all. But then again, Obi-wan aged pretty considerably from episode 3 to 4, so maybe people just age extremely fast past a certain point in the star wars universe
 #138227  by Jack Skywalker
 
At the beginning (and middle) of the movie I looked at Kylo Ren like "wow, he's so powerful!" and then he got pwned by the newbies at the end like "WTH I THOUGHT HE WAS POWERFUL". That was really bad and disappointing.

And then there's the part of the movie that admins don't like: Kylo Ren lamed Han Solo.
 #138236  by Zaluk
 
Jack Skywalker wrote:At the beginning (and middle) of the movie I looked at Kylo Ren like "wow, he's so powerful!" and then he got pwned by the newbies at the end like "WTH I THOUGHT HE WAS POWERFUL". That was really bad and disappointing.

And then there's the part of the movie that admins don't like: Kylo Ren lamed Han Solo.
Kylo was shot with a bowcaster that was capable of hurling stormtroopers in the air before the fight, yet the novel still states that Kylo was mainly toying with Finn. With Rey, Kylo was weakened with emotional turmoil due to what he had just done, which is why he was defeated by Rey.
 #138249  by Mandalorian
 
Jack Skywalker wrote:At the beginning (and middle) of the movie I looked at Kylo Ren like "wow, he's so powerful!" and then he got pwned by the newbies at the end like "WTH I THOUGHT HE WAS POWERFUL". That was really bad and disappointing.

And then there's the part of the movie that admins don't like: Kylo Ren lamed Han Solo.

And then ~Chewbacca~ I mean, jawfin went ape mode and attacked everyone.
 #138258  by Falcon
 
It's almost like if you generalize enough about a plot you can make any movie sound like any other.

I'd also like to point out that some of this is speculation and/or didn't happen in the movie.
 #138259  by Frog
 
It IS apart of the Star wars saga. Just like the prequels, despite what people like and or dislike, it IS cannon now. Just like Jar Jar, and just like Jake Floyd as Anakin. :(
But let's examine something here, the Prequels were done in poetry to the Originals. The first one, Phantom Menace, A New Hope, they both depicted the origins of our soon to be legends and the growth of evil and good alike.
Then the second, Attack of the Clones and Empire Strikes Back. They were both signified as the story of love, mystery, and defeat. Anakin and Obi-wan could not best Dooku, Luke could not best Vader. ( again, though many do not like it, Attack of the Clones is apart of the story. )
The Third, Revenge of the Sith and Return of the Jedi, begins with the rescue of a friend, Han Solo and Chancellor Palpatine. It later goes to show in contrast on how the Jedi had Returned and the Sith had their Revenge.

Not only does this make for beautiful poetry and perfect story telling, this is ALSO more than likely going to be the case with our NEW trilogy. The only odd cards are Rogue 1, the Boba Fett anthology and the Han Solo anthology, as they do not follow in line to 1, 2, 3, ,4 ,5 ,6 ,7 ,8 ,9 episodes like the main one does. But anyway, we also have more evidence that this is the case with J.J Abrams. He has said that he grew up in the films, the arguments, the controversies, and the flaws.

That could mean that he also grew up in the fandom, as he was extremely excited to begin production of this marvel of a movie. So it is not hard to believe that he wants to continue the poetry and philosophy of the other movies. Also, it makes for a fitting alternative to A New Hope with it's similar plot line; Luke Skywalker ( The Original hope ), vanished.
 #138262  by MasterM
 
People didn't like the prequels, but for the most part they weren't total rehashes of the original trilogy, so they had that going for them. They had similar elements and styles, sure, but they told new stories and from new points of view. The problem I have with 7 is that it is telling basically the same story as 4 except now the main jedi character is a girl. That's the biggest difference I can think of. It feels more like a reboot than a sequel if that makes any sense. A retelling of the same story with references to the original thrown in for laughs.

I get what you're saying about generalizing fal, and yeah, there's some new stuff in 7 that I like and I think works. But overall it's still the same story as 4. I still enjoyed the movie, but I left the theater wanting more.

Also, this is nit-picky and off topic, but we've seen a total of five different lightsabers in episodes 4-7. Luke's, Obi-wan's, Vader's, Luke's second, and Kylo Ren's. Is it really so difficult to make new ones? Would that not have allowed for more character development if Rey had to make her own saber rather than conveniently finding Luke's sitting in a bar somewhere?
 #138263  by Frog
 
Well, Anakin's lightsaber carries alot of legacy in it. Which leads me to believe that Rey may be a Skywalker, which can only make sense and be perfect closure.
 #138264  by MasterM
 
Frog Redstar wrote:Well, Anakin's lightsaber carries alot of legacy in it. Which leads me to believe that Rey may be a Skywalker, which can only make sense and be perfect closure.
That would literally be the worst thing. If the new trilogy is just a bunch of original character's children fighting each other, then seriously, what's the point? We already did the family on opposite sides of a fight (twice) and father/child jedi legacy, I don't want to see it again.
 #138265  by Frog
 
I don't necessarily think that will be the main focus. Bear in mind, Finn and Poe Dameron's parents have not been explored yet, which leaves room for different conflicts I suppose. ( Though I think we should get more Poe, he's just too awesome XD )
 #138308  by Kirito
 
Honestly guys, not tryin to pick a fight here, but I agree with John about a lot of things.

You guys can say, everything written POST battle of yavin is "Canon", but I can't agree with it. Not one bit. I did enjoy the movie. I laughed at the funny scenes, cried when Han died. But, the points John made can't be disregarded.

I spent most of my young life growing up with star wars. The books especially, and to say the books are crap is either ignorance of not reading each story or maybe yo only read the ones not on the main story line. But I fell in love with all the new characters from the novels. Lukes Masters, Knights, Padawans. Leia and Hans kids(Anakin, Jacen, and Jaina) are some of the best characters ever written in... and instead of using Jacen as Kylo they use Lukes son.... Ben.... I get they wanted to use something original. But when you look at things the way I do, and with all of my life reading what I know to be a great story this movie does step on everything I've known and loved from the star wars universe. I was quite upset at Hans death... considering he's still kicking in this timeline of the novels. I'm upset that they can just SO EASILY discard things that I consider to be great. I know I'm not the only one.

I'll be even more upset if they choose to not include Lukes wife... Mara Jade. And to you guys that are OK with everything being "canon" Mara Jade was been around for decades. And in every time line, every novel, she is Lukes Wife. Guys, the game we play together(JKA) stemmed from Dark Forces, and this series happens to have a game with Mara Starring right alongside Kyle Katarn himself. Are the games we're playing right now "canon also". I mean Kyle Katarn is loved so much they started including him in the Novels as one of Lukes council members.

I hate that they just decided to throw out the facts and say THIS IS ALL THATS REAL NOW, sorry fans, but decades of work and time and money no longer exist. But guess what, you get a big shiny new movie.

Keep in mind guys, I liked the movie. I just hate that they feel so comfortable making so many true fans disappointed. I guess I'm just one of the few who truly enjoys the expanded universe. Especially Lukes new Jedi Order. If you guys havn't read the New Jedi Order, or Legacy of the Force series. All I can say is, your missing out.

Kirito ^^
 #138319  by Zaluk
 
I love the EU, but I can completely understand them making it non canon, especially the events that happened after ROTJ. It's not like the books and comics that happen after ROTJ are suddenly non existent, they just don't hold any weight over the actual story anymore. And a little part of me is glad. There were some good things that came after ROTJ, such as Jaina Solo, Caedus, Abeloth etc, but there were so many dumb things as well, things that completely destroy the purpose of the previous films. They're non canon because Disney want to give their own story and I don't think they want to be shackled by existing stories. The EU is great, The Old Republic stuff was great, Revan, Bane etc.... it gave characters you didn't know anything about such as Ki-Adi Mundi, Mace Windu, Boba Fett some backstory. I do think some things should have been left canon, but not the events that happened after ROTJ. I also don't see a problem with them using the name Ben. They didn't have to make his name anything from the old EU, but at least they did.
 #138321  by Kirito
 
Jack Skywalker wrote:
Kirito wrote: and instead of using Jacen as Kylo they use Lukes son.... Ben....
Ben (Kylo Ren) is Han Solo's son ... :? :?:
...or did I get it wrong?
In the EU, Ben is Luke Skywalkers and Mara Jade Skywalkers son. Which makes sense because of Lukes love for Obi-Wan

In the new movie Ben is now Kylo Ren, Hans and Leias son. Makes NO sense.

Your right dude, they didn't need to use the name Ben. That's kind of my point, I would have preferred they used something different instead of smashing two characters together.

Just my opinion and backing up Johns point ^^

<3 you guys
 #138334  by MasterM
 
Frog Redstar wrote:Not since the Prequels, has a Star wars movie become such a controversy o_o
Not since the prequels, has there been a star wars movie o.o