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Belief

PostPosted:Tue Aug 21, 2012 5:15 am
by Wind
I just turned sixteen. Yay!
I decided, as sort of, shall I say, a new goal in life, to stick to what I believe. I don't think many people here are privy to my beliefs, so I shall air them out. Dirty laundry, clean laundry, depending on how you view the clothing my thoughts wear. I care about you people, all of you, believe it or not. I believe it ;) I consider you all family, and I intend on sticking around. Thence why I share this with you today.

I believe in belief. The only reason something might not be true to any one person, is because they don't believe it. Obviously there are things, being factual in nature, that are not based off of belief. In the end, you either believe it or not. The difference between believing factual things and believing debatable things, is the ability to hold onto ignorance. If it's been proven a certain way through logic and understanding of the world we live in today, and you still disagree with it yet, you are being stubborn. Ignorant. If it's unexplainable, and you refuse to believe it, you are also being ignorant and stubborn. The dividing line that I see between things factual and debatable is simple; is this belief based off of something that can coexist with societies logic today? Are people ignoring this belief because they simply cannot compute the possibility? Many people are ignorant and stubborn for different reasons. Pride. Self-esteem. Egotistic value. Religion. The biggest, Fear. These are only a few I could name off the top of my head.

Slenderman isn't real to a lot of people for one major, apparently mainstream reason. Fear. So he takes your children that hide things from you, obviously not all the children, but the select few, and if you see him, he takes you too. So what? The protection many people use, is simply this; belief. If you don't believe in it, why would it exist in your eyes? If it's unexplainable, how can it explain it's self to everyone, more so those who don't believe? Our thoughts are not just things that exist in our heads. They are all around us, as well. Thoughts can act like a shield. If we think it isn't real, it isn't real. If we think it is, it very well may be. This is also a vast majority of logic's power.

Without society and it's logic, many people would simply stand and whittle their thumbs, eventually forced to form opinions of their own. Sadly, not many people are the blacksheep of their own lives. They go along with other peoples beliefs, thence the term "popular belief". An example of this in every day conversation would be, "Contrary to popular belief, I think all cats are purple." Whether that belief is logical or not, it still happens to be a belief. Simply not a popular one. People tend to be rude to others so bold in their own beliefs because they fear that if they scream their belief too loud, too many people would start believing it. Like a snowball, the security of society and it's logic is eaten from the inside, out. The common obvious is that what people fear, is usually what people don't understand. Not understanding something, leading to fear, can lead to anger. Anger can, and almost always will if pushed to the limit, lead to someones death. Suddenly, the world is filed with purple kitties. Who knew.

The only reason so many people hold onto logic is because it's an easy shield, and part of life is spent building up basic logic in order to protect ourselves when we are very young. Thousands of years have already been spent building up logic, so much in fact, that we subconsciously make decisions based off of what we know. This is partly the reason why most children do bad things, why some children do good things, and why some children don't do anything. They don't know yet, and thence they are experimenting with their beliefs. An example would be ghosts or spirits. Children claim to see people that their parents do not. This is due in heavy part to the lack of understanding, simply without the fear. They don't know what it is. The natural reaction to something we don't know what is, is to communicate with it. Depending on how our parents raised us, we all see different things. My childhood friend sees dead people all the time. Why? Because her mother never shielded her from it. Nobody remembers who they talked to when they were wee little, and that's because our parents work hard to establish ourselves with a pre-defined defense against things in this world. As we get older, the shell of logic simply slides off, or stays on, depending on what you decide to do with your life.

Forgive me if this seems shy of insanity at a young age, I'm merely trying to capture the bigger picture.

PostPosted:Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:42 am
by donykerio
Yay! Philosophy .. xD. You made some important points. I would go farther and say that every single thing on this world is about faith. Existance for example. It could seems like obvious that we exist, but the human mind is able to reject this world, like not real. All about convincing self for it. For example a homeless person is able to consider himself as a king, and that he lives is mansion. For us, he would be mentally ill, but still, what he cares? He is a king.. When someone sees world in diffrent way, he is weird and unacceptable in this society. For him, we all are weird, and only normal person is he. Everything depends on the point of view. This world is used to consider something as right, If most of people think so. I see so nosense here.
The other thing is logic. What is it anyway? Does it even exist, or we just created it, so we can consider something as true, and feel more safely, as you said :). I cant remember ONE thing, which I would thing is 100% logic. There is even a difference between perceptions logic by variant people.
Religion, yet again. If someone claims, that he has proof of the existence of his God, he is lost. If anyone says, that is able to prove his faith, he is lying. The thing about religion isnt about believing in something what could happened, it is about believing in something, what is worth to believe.

PostPosted:Tue Aug 21, 2012 5:50 pm
by Seeker
Mmmmmm, what can I say, cannot agree more :)

Re: Belief

PostPosted:Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:11 pm
by Jato
Wind wrote: Many people are ignorant and stubborn for different reasons. Pride. Self-esteem. Egotistic value. Religion. The biggest, Fear. These are only a few I could name off the top of my head.
I wouldn't call those who hold religious values ignorant.... they may disagree with your thought process and you expect them to respect that BUT remember to do so in return.

Also, happy birthday!!

(P.S. Shouldn't this belong in the anything goes?)

PostPosted:Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:10 pm
by Wind
Now I never said there was anything bad about being ignorant and stubborn :P The reason most people are stubborn specifically, is because they fear what would happen if they didn't have anything to believe in.

PostPosted:Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:13 pm
by donykerio
Wind wrote:(..) because they fear what would happen if they didn't have anything to believe in.

Doesnt everyone?

PostPosted:Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:15 pm
by Wind
donykerio wrote:
Wind wrote:(..) because they fear what would happen if they didn't have anything to believe in.

Doesnt everyone?
That's half the adventure and stage of growth, gripping that fear and creating your own beliefs :) It's hard, but sometimes life is hard. For the better part, life will always be hard.

PostPosted:Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:38 pm
by donykerio
Wind wrote: That's half the adventure and stage of growth, gripping that fear and creating your own beliefs :) It's hard, but sometimes life is hard. For the better part, life will always be hard.
So what do you think is the point?

PostPosted:Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:46 pm
by Wind
I don't really have a point, this is just how I view life :P

PostPosted:Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:48 pm
by donykerio
Wind wrote:I don't really have a point, this is just how I view life :P
So your view of life has no point?! What kind of view is that? What is the meaning then?

PostPosted:Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:29 pm
by Jato
Wind wrote:Now I never said there was anything bad about being ignorant and stubborn :P The reason most people are stubborn specifically, is because they fear what would happen if they didn't have anything to believe in.
However the mere statement of calling someone ignorant and stubborn is a hostile and unkind statement.... MANY would take offense to that. You may call them ignorant, however, a true understanding of science and its developement should also make on realize that we are ALL ignorant and what limited grasp we have of the galaxy... i.e. it used to be thought that the rain made worms and rotting flesh made flies. So to say that science is factual and unquestionable would almost be an ignorant statement in itself. Whether you think its "ignorant and stubborn" is completely you're opinion however maybe its not best to voice it in that manner. Remember to respect other's opinions :)

PostPosted:Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:47 am
by Archaic
Jato, again, well stated.

Wind, happy birthday, kid.

Dony, reading your words has brought to my mind an interesting quote that I would like to share with you:

"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything." - Friedrich Nietzsche

It is by one of my favorite authors, a philosopher that I would recommend you all to read.

PostPosted:Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:33 am
by Jato
Archaic wrote:Jato, again, well stated.
Thank you :)

PostPosted:Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:50 am
by MasterM
donykerio wrote:
Wind wrote:I don't really have a point, this is just how I view life :P
So your view of life has no point?! What kind of view is that? What is the meaning then?
google existentialism

PostPosted:Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:51 pm
by Wind
Archaic wrote:Jato, again, well stated.

Wind, happy birthday, kid.

Dony, reading your words has brought to my mind an interesting quote that I would like to share with you:

"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything." - Friedrich Nietzsche

It is by one of my favorite authors, a philosopher that I would recommend you all to read.
Oh, you do hide your backhanded compliments well. I suggest strongly, Archaic, for the sake of your friendship lasting with me, that you hold yourself from commenting on my posts unless you have something useful and worthwhile to say. I think you're an interesting smart guy, and I like you, but even as smart as you are, I think you have a hard time grasping the fact; playing with fire will burn you.

"How civil would the world be, if smart words, followed people who were actually smart." -Anonymous

PostPosted:Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:56 pm
by Wind
Jato wrote:
Wind wrote:Now I never said there was anything bad about being ignorant and stubborn :P The reason most people are stubborn specifically, is because they fear what would happen if they didn't have anything to believe in.
However the mere statement of calling someone ignorant and stubborn is a hostile and unkind statement.... MANY would take offense to that. You may call them ignorant, however, a true understanding of science and its developement should also make on realize that we are ALL ignorant and what limited grasp we have of the galaxy... i.e. it used to be thought that the rain made worms and rotting flesh made flies. So to say that science is factual and unquestionable would almost be an ignorant statement in itself. Whether you think its "ignorant and stubborn" is completely you're opinion however maybe its not best to voice it in that manner. Remember to respect other's opinions :)
I love it when people take what I say and twist it around ;)
Read.
What.
I.
Wrote.
Then don't argue with me, because the only reason you take offense, is because you don't understand.

PostPosted:Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:15 pm
by Wind
donykerio wrote:
Wind wrote:I don't really have a point, this is just how I view life :P
So your view of life has no point?! What kind of view is that? What is the meaning then?
I can give you a summary, if that will help o.o

The reason behind logic, faith, and many of the other things people believe in, is solely to have something to believe in, because most of the time people have no idea how to differentiate what between what without some kind of base to start with. Logic is one of them. Science is made from us, the theories and possibilities we speak on. Science is a good tool as well. It explains many things in it's own way. The reason I see, as an example, Science and Superstition as two equal beliefs, is because they can both explain things in their own way. People have a choice, whichever makes more sense to them, they usually end up believing in it.

PostPosted:Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:18 pm
by Wind
Also, Fal, someone, I think this might be better off locked. Not much good is coming of it ;)

PostPosted:Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:49 pm
by Jato
Wind wrote:
Jato wrote:
Wind wrote:Now I never said there was anything bad about being ignorant and stubborn :P The reason most people are stubborn specifically, is because they fear what would happen if they didn't have anything to believe in.
However the mere statement of calling someone ignorant and stubborn is a hostile and unkind statement.... MANY would take offense to that. You may call them ignorant, however, a true understanding of science and its developement should also make on realize that we are ALL ignorant and what limited grasp we have of the galaxy... i.e. it used to be thought that the rain made worms and rotting flesh made flies. So to say that science is factual and unquestionable would almost be an ignorant statement in itself. Whether you think its "ignorant and stubborn" is completely you're opinion however maybe its not best to voice it in that manner. Remember to respect other's opinions :)
I love it when people take what I say and twist it around ;)
Read.
What.
I.
Wrote.
Then don't argue with me, because the only reason you take offense, is because you don't understand.
Excuse me? I read what you said very clearly and if you would like to re-read your own statement you DID say people who hold religious view are "ignorant and stubborn" as you cleary stated right here:
Wind wrote: Many people are ignorant and stubborn for different reasons. Pride. Self-esteem. Egotistic value. Religion. The biggest, Fear.
I particularly like how you bolded religion, Wind. I am not "twisting your words around" I am simply saying whether you intentionally or unintentionally meant to you DID call them ignorant. You expect people to RESPECT your standpoint that so you need to RESPECT thiers. Referring to them as ignorant is not doing so. So all I am asking (kindly) is that you remember other people have their own viewpoints and they should NOT attack yours, but you should respect theirs equally even if you disagree with them.

PostPosted:Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:55 pm
by Jato
Wind wrote:Also, Fal, someone, I think this might be better off locked. Not much good is coming of it ;)
I agree as well

PostPosted:Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:16 pm
by Falcon
Sorry to say, but this thread was just asking to go downhill from the start.

~Topic locked~